2010 Audi Q5 Secondary Air Injection System Cleaning Ports
08-02-201911:06 AM #1
Established Member Ii Rings
Secondary Air Injection Port Cleaning
Dealer is asking for $2k to do the secondary port cleaning since I'm exterior of 120K miles warranty.
Has anybody endeavor to make clean the secondary air injection ports at domicile? I was wondering how much of the front y'all demand to take off to admission the ports. My judge is the bumper, radiator, radiator fan, frazzle manifolds and combi valves need to exist removed. There are two videos that show where the port is located and how to clean them, only information technology too show the entire front removed. I don't think the entire front needs to be remove.
https://www.youtube.com/spotter?v=ZivHxigu854
https://www.youtube.com/lookout man?v=zVN1-4ZvCII
08-02-201912:54 PM #2
Senior Member Iii Rings 
I have been running into this trouble a lot lately, ill clear the code and it comes correct back.
When i asked Audi of America virtually the TSB, existence nether the mileage and historic period limit, they responded and said the but matter covered under the TSB is faulty valves or the pump. Zilch nearly the cleaning being covered.
Has anyone establish a manner effectually this event other than having it cleaned? Is there a way to bypass the exhaust flanges somehow to keep the system from getting too clogged upward?
2013 Phantom Blackness S4, 6MT, Apr Stage one, Carbon Intake, Canyon Run CR-15, aFe Pro 5R, Sport Unequal, B&O, Nav
08-02-201901:42 PM #3
Veteran Member Three Rings
Originally Posted by Snowmonkey 
I have been running into this problem a lot lately, ill clear the code and information technology comes right dorsum.
When i asked Audi of America about the TSB, being under the mileage and age limit, they responded and said the only affair covered under the TSB is faulty valves or the pump. Nothing about the cleaning being covered.
Has anyone found a way around this outcome other than having it cleaned? Is there a way to featherbed the exhaust flanges somehow to keep the system from getting too clogged up?
The secondary air is covered. Contact AoA if the local dealer won't play ball. Warranty goes out to 120,000 miles.
08-02-201901:53 PM #iv
Established Member Two Rings
I'chiliad curious if this is a straight forward DIY. Removing radiator and manifold is probably a big job, simply since i have not washed information technology myself I'm not certain.
08-02-201901:58 PM #5
Senior Member Three Rings
Originally Posted by chilort
The secondary air is covered. Contact AoA if the local dealer won't play ball. Warranty goes out to 120,000 miles.
I did contact AoA almost information technology, that was their response. Dealer said I demand to go confirmation from AoA since they had never done this detail TSB (somehow?) so that'due south why i reached out to them in the first place.
Give thanks you for contacting Audi of America regarding your beautiful 2013 Audi S4. I understand your
business organisation for the check engine lite that gave a fault that may be in relation to the P0491 Secondary Air
Injection Arrangement.
I come across hither that you have warranty extensions specific to your vehicle, the Secondary Air Modify Over
Valve and the Natural Valve Leak Detection Switch. Both of these concerns accept extended warranties of
ten years or 120,000 miles.
Nosotros advise to have your vehicle diagnosed at an authorized Audi dealership. If the Secondary Air Alter
Over Valve is the diagnosis, warranty coverage will exist offered.
I sent that to the dealer and they agreed that cleaning would not exist covered. I responded to AoA with a re-create of a letter sent to some other owner that DID mention cleaning would be covered and they said I needed my own copy of the letter, which i don't have since I am the second owner of the car.
2013 Phantom Black S4, 6MT, Apr Stage one, Carbon Intake, Canyon Run CR-15, aFe Pro 5R, Sport Diff, B&O, Nav
08-02-201902:07 PM #half dozen
Senior Member Iii Rings
Originally Posted by Culi
I'g curious if this is a direct frontward DIY. Removing radiator and manifold is probably a large chore, but since i have non washed information technology myself I'm not sure.
Im sifting through the service and repair manual, ill definitely keep you updated if i discover anything usefull.
2013 Phantom Black S4, 6MT, April Stage ane, Carbon Intake, Coulee Run CR-15, aFe Pro 5R, Sport Unequal, B&O, Nav
08-02-201903:05 PM #7
Established Fellow member Two Rings
Originally Posted by Snowmonkey
Im sifting through the service and repair manual, ill definitely keep you updated if i find anything usefull.
I was skimming through it to. The Ac condenser needs to be removed also. I don't recall we are allow to vent refrigerant into the air. Might need special auto for this.
08-02-201903:10 PM #8
Senior Member Three Rings
Originally Posted by Culi
I was skimming through it to. The Air conditioning condenser needs to exist removed likewise. I don't think nosotros are allow to vent refrigerant into the air. Might need special auto for this.
Y'all can become the valves and stuff necessary to do it yourself for less than 50 bucks. Or know someone in the HVAC industry who you lot can bribe with a case of beer to come up help out.
2013 Phantom Black S4, 6MT, April Stage one, Carbon Intake, Canyon Run CR-15, aFe Pro 5R, Sport Diff, B&O, Nav
08-02-201903:31 PM #9
Established Member Two Rings
go to another dealer. trouble solved.
08-02-201909:51 PM #x
Established Member Two Rings
Originally Posted by grat_master
get to another dealer. problem solved.
Truthful, but I just like to tinker and learn how to do stuff.
08-03-201909:58 AM #eleven
Veteran Member Four Rings 
If your flagged TD1 they volition deny it, not sure if you are.
2012
Ibis P+ / DSG / Silk Napa / B&O / Sport Diff. / ADS lite / MMI & Nav / April Stage 2+ & TCU Tuned / Ultra Charger / 184mm KI LIL Bowwow / ECS Kohlefaser Luft-Technik Intake / AMS Alpha Cooler / ECS 2-Slice Rotors / Akebono Pads / VMR 803 19x9.5 ET45 265-35-19 PSS / ECS Drivetrain Bushing Inserts / CR-15
11.eight @ 116mph 2487DA on 93oct file Phase 2+
THEN
THEN
Then Rinse & Repeat!
08-05-201902:40 PM #12
Senior Member Three Rings
Originally Posted by grat_master
go to another dealer. problem solved.
Practise you know of any documentation i tin produce that would assist my case? other than the TSB, which the outset dealer pretty much ignored.
2013 Phantom Black S4, 6MT, Apr Phase 1, Carbon Intake, Canyon Run CR-fifteen, aFe Pro 5R, Sport Diff, B&O, Nav
08-06-201911:53 AM #14
Established Member Ii Rings
Guys, nosotros understand that there is a TSB that covers the carbon cleaning up to 120K miles. The reason I created this thread is to come across if we can take a DIY or proffer on how to prepare this ourselves without going through the dealer when the motorcar is exterior of warranty. This seems to exist common and occurs maybe every 50K miles...?
I have been thinking that maybe removing the exhaust manifold and combination valves only. This provides access to the secondary port from the back side at the combination valve attachment. Stick a pipe cleaner / flexible drill scrap into the hole and try to become the carbon out that way. Put a stop or something to cake the freeze plug from falling out the opposite end. This could salve fourth dimension since the forepart end doesn't take to be removed.
08-06-201912:54 PM #xv
Senior Member Three Rings
Originally Posted past Culi
Guys, we empathize that there is a TSB that covers the carbon cleaning upward to 120K miles. The reason I created this thread is to see if we can have a DIY or proposition on how to fix this ourselves without going through the dealer when the car is outside of warranty. This seems to be common and occurs maybe every 50K miles...?
I have been thinking that maybe removing the exhaust manifold and combination valves only. This provides access to the secondary port from the back side at the combination valve attachment. Stick a pipage cleaner / flexible drill bit into the hole and try to get the carbon out that way. Put a stop or something to block the freeze plug from falling out the reverse end. This could save fourth dimension since the front end doesn't accept to exist removed.
Sorry, i inadvertently hijacked the thread.
Going in from the dorsum sounds tricky though. If you were actually set on DIY, yous could always but completely cut out the ports in the engine block and tap directly into the manifolds with a stand up lonely secondary manifold. Plug both sides of the engine block ports and run the combi valves into new tubes running forth side. That would sure make cleanout easier in the futurity, if you then chose. Someone more familiar with these engines and working on them should chime in and tell me if I'k being stupid, but I don't see whatever major obstacles to that method.
2013 Phantom Black S4, 6MT, Apr Stage one, Carbon Intake, Canyon Run CR-15, aFe Pro 5R, Sport Diff, B&O, Nav
08-twenty-201910:23 AM #16
Established Fellow member Two Rings
I'g reading through the Sevice Bulletin for port cleaning. The dealer uses specialize nozzle to clean the port. At that place are ii high pressure water nozzles that are being used and a special adapter for cleaning the side port; one nozzle for cleaning directly down the port, and ane with a calibration to clean the three side ports. The adapter is used for cleaning the side port. Here is the tool price.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...fifty/vas6825~oev/
As far as the procedure goes, the machine is put in service position, disconnect the exhaust between the outset and 2d muffler, remove spark plugs and cover the coil electrical end. The belts, front end difficult coolant hose, the coolant flange, and the vertical coolant hoses that goes into the supercharger need to be removed. After that, remove the freeze plug and attach the adapter. Connect the hose to pressure washer and stick in the nozzle that clean at 2000 psi. Run information technology all the style to the combi valve. Change nozzle for cleaning side port. In that location is a predetermined length for each side port. Afterwards cleaning, suck any water that is in the combustion chamber by using a vacuum hose through the spark plug tube.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...53120-9999.pdf
Procedure seems straight forward. Merely the price of the tool is expensive. Wonder is everyone is renting out that tool.
08-twenty-201910:50 AM #17
Veteran Member 4 Rings
I spoke to a couple of guys I know that own shops, ex Audi techs, and they all told me they would non endeavour the service as special tools are needed. Doesn't mean others wouldn't just seems similar its not something they have access to or are willing to tackle.
2012
eleven.viii @ 116mph 2487DA on 93oct file Phase ii+
THEN
08-20-2019eleven:02 AM #18
Established Member Ii Rings
I guess the special tool is the water pressure nozzles. I'm debating on buying the tool and notwithstanding salvage $1000, or practice it the manual manner as shown in the videos in the original mail service. The removal of the whole front end is a picayune scary, only just a trivial more work afterwards putting the car in the service position. Just disconnect some coolant hoses, AC lines, hood pull cable, and some electrical. Probably not equally easy as I think, but shouldn't be that complicated right?
Anybody Audi tech on this forum want to chime in?
08-20-2019xi:forty AM #twenty
Established Member Two Rings
Haha me also bud. You are spraying loftier pressure h2o into the port that connects to the exhaust, which connects to the chamber. Either that or using a drill scrap to clean out the carbon.
08-20-201912:49 PM #21
Senior Member Three Rings
Originally Posted by Culi
Haha me too bud. You are spraying loftier pressure water into the port that connects to the exhaust, which connects to the chamber. Either that or using a drill flake to clean out the carbon.
Yeah, thats gonna be a no from me dawg. Sheesh, that sounds sketch.
Does anyone know the consistency of the carbon deposits? Are they pretty like shooting fish in a barrel to break downwardly or are they hard every bit rock? Could some sort of increasing size of wire brush setup work to gently brush it all out? Hell, fifty-fifty custom grinding some sort of drill bit thats more for stone, doesnt have sharp corners that could scratch the walls of the manifold, would be a helluva cheaper option than that specialized tool.
2013 Phantom Black S4, 6MT, Apr Stage 1, Carbon Intake, Canyon Run CR-15, aFe Pro 5R, Sport Diff, B&O, Nav
08-20-201903:07 PM #22
Established Member Two Rings
Probably the aforementioned consistency equally the carbon on the valve. That is very like shooting fish in a barrel to remove. The video said to employ the drill bit and plough information technology past mitt. Then I assume information technology is very soft, simply sticky.
08-20-201903:49 PM #23
Senior Member Three Rings
Originally Posted past Culi
Probably the aforementioned consistency as the carbon on the valve. That is very easy to remove. The video said to use the drill bit and turn it by hand. So I assume it is very soft, but sticky.
I'm imagining it like built up soot in a chimney, so a wire brush pipe-cleaner is probably a skilful option if y'all're worried about the drill bit. Probably wont leave the ports as shiny clean as the 2000psi pressure washer that Audi recommends merely it volition be a damn sight cheaper, and y'all don't have to worry almost water in your cylinders.
2013 Phantom Black S4, 6MT, APR Phase 1, Carbon Intake, Coulee Run CR-xv, aFe Pro 5R, Sport Unequal, B&O, Nav
08-20-201904:00 PM #24
Senior Member Three Rings
What nigh deleting the system and coding information technology out?
034 has a delete for previous years. Mayhap they would be willing to practise one for the B8, and offering off carte du jour coding.
08-20-2019xi:55 PM #25
Established Member Two Rings
Originally Posted by JS81
What about deleting the system and coding it out?
034 has a delete for previous years. Perhaps they would exist willing to practise one for the B8, and offer off carte du jour coding.
Yous're telling me that you can delete the coding for this and the error will not popular up once more? I thought it was required for emission. The simply reason I need to become this fix is because I can't pass inspection and get my machine registration renewal.
08-21-201905:19 AM #26
Senior Member Three Rings
No idea if its possible on our Simos, simply information technology appears it could be coded out on previous platforms.
08-21-201906:39 AM #27
Senior Member Iii Rings
Originally Posted by JS81
No idea if its possible on our Simos, only it appears it could be coded out on previous platforms.
From talking to my mechanic (not Audi dealer, just German specialist), he mentioned that since it is emissions related, it is cached deeeeeeep within the coding, and isnt just based in the ECU like it used to exist. That's probably why previous gens were able to be tuned out. Equally far equally he had heard, there was no way to code out the SAI system without major major electronics reworks
2013 Phantom Black S4, 6MT, APR Phase ane, Carbon Intake, Coulee Run CR-15, aFe Pro 5R, Sport Diff, B&O, Nav
08-thirty-2020x:01 AM #29
Active Fellow member One Ring
Hi Culi,
How did this story end? I have been clearing this codes for 1 bank only on my C7 and know that Audi wont repair information technology nether warranty unless both banks are coding. And then I got to know the end of this story please?
2013 A6 3.0T Quattro Black Peal Prestige
08-30-202012:39 PM #30
Veteran Fellow member Four Rings
It is required for federal emissions, so nobody wants the legal liability to disable it in the ECU coding. If you know what yous are doing with the ECU coding, it is probably trivial to remove the SAI diagnostic bank check.
The SAI diagnostic routine monitors the air pressure before the SAI combi valves. I remember there is a way to simulated out the diagnostic so that the DTC lawmaking is not ready even though the air passages in the head are clogged.
08-31-202009:11 AM #31
Senior Member Three Rings
Originally Posted by S4'ed
It is required for federal emissions, so nobody wants the legal liability to disable it in the ECU coding. If you know what you are doing with the ECU coding, it is probably trivial to remove the SAI diagnostic bank check.
The SAI diagnostic routine monitors the air force per unit area earlier the SAI combi valves. I think in that location is a fashion to fake out the diagnostic so that the DTC code is not set fifty-fifty though the air passages in the head are chock-full.
Goddamn i would love that. I've had one bank throwing a code for the past iii years, but the but ane wont throw while i'g still in the extended warranty catamenia.
2013 Phantom Black S4, 6MT, APR Stage 1, Carbon Intake, Coulee Run CR-15, aFe Pro 5R, Sport Diff, B&O, Nav
01-13-2021xi:02 AM #34
Agile Fellow member I Ring
cheaper Secondary Air Injection cleaning tool
@snowmonkey: I see you've done a lot of research on the secondary air injection issues. I recently cleaned the ports in the cylinder head on a 2009 A6 Quattro three.0. I saw that Audi sells a pressure washer zipper for $900, so I made my ain! I'm interested in trying to sell some of these as they are easy to fabricate, but I'm worried near patent infringement. I called a patent lawyer and he said that I needed to commit to $5K to $10K. I've been attempting to navigate the U.Due south. patent office just I can't notice the patent for the Audi tool (part # VAS6825). The way I made the tool is quite a bit dissimilar from the Audi tool but it works well. I wondered if you have whatever ideas on how I could sell this to Audizine members without getting sued. I could sell this tool for nether $200 and nevertheless make a good turn a profit. If you have any thoughts, I'd really capeesh hearing them. 
Mark
Last edited past Mark_Karlsson; 01-13-2021 at 11:06 AM. Reason: needs a correction
01-13-202102:42 PM #35
Veteran Member 4 Rings
I doubtfulness Audi patented the tool. There is null financially to be gained (for Audi) by protecting that tool...they are not in the tool selling business, and it is such a super-niche application.
The "magic" of the Audi tool is the right-angle spray tip, and the measurement scale so that it can exist inserted the right depth to spray into each of the 3 individual SAI ports that run to the frazzle ports.
Concerning the AC system, the AC condensor tin be swung out of the way, with the flexible safety hoses still connected, so that the Freon does not need to be released and recharged.
Since I intend to continue my S4 for a very long time, and I expect my SAI ports to eventually clog, I will then spend some fourth dimension to develop a circuit that taps into the SAI force per unit area sensor signal, to fool the ECU that the SAI system is not clogged. Unfortunatly I have no motivation to do this until I run into this trouble...too many projects on my plate.
If anyone else wants to practise this, have at it. Basically, at engine start, the ECU checks the SAI air pressure (as measured by the force per unit area sensor) at iv or and then unlike operating conditions of the SAI pump and the two combi valves. If the measured SAI "backpressure" falls within a sure range (unique to each of the 4 operating conditions), then the diagnostic test passes and there is no DTC set up. If a port is clogged, or a combi valve does not open/shut, or the SAI pump doesn't piece of work, then one or more of the measured backpressure values will not be within the adequate range (for that operating status), and the SAI DTC is set up. Using a Rasberry Pi micro, one could hands output an analog voltage that replaces the existent SAI pressure sensor output signal (0 to 5VDC), that tells the ECU that the SAI backpressure is within the normal range. The Rasberry needs to sense the 12V drive signals to the pump, and the 2 Combi valve solenoids, to make up one's mind which of the 4 diagnostic operating modes the arrangement is in, to so generate the appropriate simulated sensor DC output voltage to the ECU. The first pace to developing this is to measure the SAI Pressure sensor signal output level during each of the 4 diagnostic operating modes, on a car that does not accept an SAI clog.
See pages 38 thru 41 of the "Audi 3.0 V6 TFSI engine with Roots blower Self-Written report Program 925803" for the technical details of the SAI organisation and the diagnostic self-test.
Last edited by S4'ed; 01-thirteen-2021 at 03:33 PM.
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2010 Audi Q5 Secondary Air Injection System Cleaning Ports
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